Morning PhilosophersNotes Tribe! Today we’ll be studying Ken Wilber.
Ken Wilber
“In the heart of Emptiness there is a mysterious impulse, mysterious because there is actually nothing in the heart of Emptiness (for there is nothing in Emptiness, period). Yet, there it is, this mysterious impulse, the impulse to … create. To sing, to shine, to radiate; to send forth, reach out, and celebrate; to sing and shout and walk about; to effervesce and bubble over, this mysterious exuberance in the heart of Emptiness.”
~ Ken Wilber from One Taste: July 31
And some words from Brian:
Ken Wilber. The Integral Philosopher (& Mystic). You might recognize him as the guy with the intimidating and penetrating stare on the cover of those books of his!
In this PhilosophersNote, we’ll explore some of the Big Ideas I’ve picked up from my studies of Ken’s work and Integral—both from his books and his Integral Institute-sponsored workshops. From “holons” and “spiral dynamics” to “states and stages,” and the “Integral sage.” Whether your new to Ken’s work or have been studying Integral theory for a while, I think you’ll enjoy this practical look to the genius’ work.
And as always, what’s your BIGGEST Aha! moment from this Note and how are you going to implement the wisdom from today into your life? Drop a comment and let the discussions roll!And twitter users, don’t forget the #50days 
Also, because lots of people are joining in on the Challenge a few days late and in case you miss a day or two, check out this page » We’ve listed every Note that will be discussed (on which day) along with links to the discussion posts.Can’t wait to get the discussion going on today’s Note.
Talk to you guys tomorrow and if you haven’t got your 100 PhilosophersNotes yet, you can grab them here »
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Hi Team
Quite a bit of Ken’s writing seems to me to be good poetry, and not so strong on reality — the opening quote is a prime example — “In the heart of Emptiness there is a mysterious impulse,” simply doesn’t do much for me.
I love the idea of integrating ideas across traditions, and for me Ken does a poor job. It seems to me like much of it is integrating flat earth models.
Holons is a great idea in a sense. New properties emerge from complex collections, which properties allow for new stuff to happen. Just depends on the perspective one takes on it, what one gets to see.
Spiral dynamics is a “yeah — sort of” for me. I see it from a different perspective. When starting from nothing, we must neceaasrily start from the simple, and slowly develop into the more complex. In the realm of distinctions, that means starting from a simple binary — like right/wrong, dark/light, hot/cold, .… With experience and time, we develop greater depth in distinctions, most of which are infinite. The earliest distinctions are the hardest to change, the one distinction that is always present at the birth of our self awareness is one of the valuation distinctions “right/wrong” or “good/bad” or “good/evil”. For most of us, our personal original sin follows us to the grave. It is possible to see it for what it is (the declaration of a child trapped in a culture), and to then transcend the simple notion of right/wrong, and enter the realm of infinite possibility, that is something. Not exactly spiral dynamics, just a geeks/system view of human development. The thing about infinite dimensions is that they are infinite. The rainbow isn’t seven colours it is an infinite spectrum of possible energies. The spiral dynamics color coding is a simplistic view of and infinite range of possible views, that share one thing in common — they are all based on the notion of right/wrong. So it is a sort of Yes and.
Yes and has some real possibility in it.
The subject object thing is a useful tool, and it is something of a mis-identification. The subject object thought experiment is a tool that can introduce the idea of abstraction. In my understanding, all abstraction is ultimately powered by the subconscious and is a “side effect” of the storage and retrieval of information as an interference pattern (most easily conceptualised via studying holograms).
I like the “States & Stages” idea — it is a systems necessity. There is a vast difference between experiencing a state as a result of a particular set of circumstances, and developing a set of habits that create a context of being that consistently creates that “state experience”. This can take decades of persistent practice and inquiry into what patterns are triggered by what situations, and actively re-programming onself, at every level of abstraction one can achieve (which levels of abstraction appear to be infinite, so there is no end to this process).
I like “The Integral Sage” concept; and I’m just arrogant enough to think I’m better at it than Ken — LOL ( and I am being serious, and laughing).
To me it seems that Ken has some powerful ideas, and some serious errors of understanding. Worth a read certainly, and far from complete or accurate.
Thanks Brian and Vishen lots of food for thought.
Great comments Ted!! I really enjoy your perspective on this note, especially since a lot of the points you brought up are points that I did not even think of. Regardless I took a lot from this note that I am still digesting.
I also love your honesty and humor
This is all about having fun after all!!
Thanks Jeanette
Appreciate your comments.
Keep on investigating new ideas, particularly the ones you have for yourself.
And I agree — having fun along the way sure beats the alternative.
Arohanui
Ted
Great post Ted — I’m still tryng to ‘digest’ everything from today’s note because I found it quite hard going and a bit too ‘spiritual’ for me personally but your note helped me to understand some of the concepts better so thank you!
Best wishes to you
Hi Ted. I garner a lot more from Wilber, I suppose…before having read any of his works completely. From the notes I deduce a less linear approach to our existence and evolution. Human development is not just human, it is everything and nothing. Not so important that the world can’t live without us, and totally incremental in the scheme of things. We rise from the dust and return to it, our “parts” becoming part of another “whole” as dictated by “our perception” of matter-to-matter. What we possess is that inherent ability to manifest our visions, perhaps creating something from “nothing” that Ken addresses in Brian’s opening note.
What it all boils down to is the importance of remembering that we do not independently “rise above” our fellow inhabitants of the Universe…we merely reconfigure our being into a more “inclusive” being. Adler states one cannot properly ascend above a community by leaving it behind. All we do is a cooperative effort.
Hi Mark,
I have read a bit of Wilbur, prior to encountering Brian, and had a few email exchanges with him.
I absolutely agree that we are far more than a simple ego.
We each of us stand on the shoulders of giants, over thousands of generations.
Culture has evolved, with contributions from millions of individuals and groups over tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of years, and there seems to me something very new happening over the last 10,000 or so years.
I started playing with computers almost 40 years ago, about the same time I learned about plate techtonics, and how mountains are built. I have been fascinated by biological evolution for almost 50 years, and it is almost 40 since I completed undergrad biochemistry studies. I have been both amateur and professional hunter and fishermen — so have been a keen observer and tester of nature in action; while also being an ardent conservationist.
This combination is a little unusual.
I have a great deal of training in looking at things from a systems perspective, from both the behavioural and the structural dimensions; and I see many relationships between the engineering, scientific and mystical perspectives — and I disagree with much of what passes for established scientific knowledge — particularly in the area of quantum mechanics — too much laziness by too many in that area.
Ken often keeps coming back to the idea of an impulse to evolution, and the idea of spirit expanding. To me both appear clearly false in the context he presents.
Certainly, in the sense that we are software — non physical patterns existing in a physical matrix — we must expand, often in non-linear steps. Anything beginning from a fixed starting point, and moving out from that point into and infinitely dimensional space must expand, both within the dimensions it has to begin with, and into new dimensions as their distinctions and abstractions become available.
That is a simple logical necessity dictated by mathematics and topology, it does not imply any “impulse”.
In my observation, there is no “impulse to evolve”. Actually, there is quite the reverse. Most people would much rather be right, and defend a cherished idea, even if it is not one they thought of themselves, but one they have been told by “culture” that is “true”, than actually explore and evaluate ideas for themselves.
A willingness to try out novelty, and explore the truly new, is rare indeed (in my experience).
Actually, in terms of abstraction, we do, individually, make our own abstractions, and rise to new dimensions. Often to find that many have been there before us, some a very long time before (thousands of years). And sometimes, when we abstract to a new dimension, we cannot find any evidence of anyone being there before, nor of anyone willing to join us as yet. It can be very lonely, seeing new vistas and being unable to communicate them.
Not everything we do is a cooperative effort, and no one is truly independent of anything else. Both notions are false. Often what we achieve is the result of cooperative effort, and sometimes what we achieve is in spite of all the effort against us. And we are related in so many ways, not least of which by the holographic interaction of our photons, and via them, our ideas.
We can certainly leave communities behind, and it is not an action I am currently proposing (and in another sense I suppose I did so 38 years ago, and have continued my explorations into new dimensions since).
When something new comes into existence, a new pattern, a new level of pattern, it is novel; it comes with new properties; and in the case of the being of a human, a new set of experiential properties.
I commend everyone to the study of life, and living systems. For me, the greatest breakthrough occurred reading Richard Dawkins 1976 book “The Selfish Gene” — and at that time I had already completed undergrad biochem studies, quite a bit of philosophy, a few years professional fishing, a couple of years working with mainframe computers, had an engineering ticket, and had been reading Scientific American and New Scientist for over a decade, and playing in my own little laboratory out on the farm, a long way from anyone else. So maybe, to have the impact on someone else, that it did on me, some or all of those pre-conditions may be required.
I just find Ken to be off on what appear to me to be a tangent — a non-productive one. He often comes out against science; I often criticise scientists, and scientific theories, but not the ultimate methods of science; which are, ultimately, to trust your own intuitions enough to test them against reality, and to study all the ways in which tests can fail, instruments can give false reading, and probability and statistics can interfere with interpretation of results. Not simple — actually takes a few years of intensive study to start to get a feel for it.
OK, now you are stretching my brain some more…much food for thought…
Re: From the notes I deduce a less linear approach to our existence and evolution. Interesting concept Mark!
I like the Adler quote too! “Adler states one cannot properly ascend above a community by leaving it behind. All we do is a cooperative effort.“
Have a great day!
Your starting to make my brain hurt…I can see that you could get lost in Wilber! But, I love it…everyone here, making me stretch
Agree 100% Stephanie!
Ted — I thoroughly enjoyed your comments as well. I appreciate that you are not afraid to color outside the lines.
Ken superbly integrated complex ideas into simple meaningful thoughts. In the heart of emptiness, there is a mysterious impulse – ‘no mind’ have active thrust of powerful ideas.
Integral Age – integration of everything, but still continuing?! Holons and spiral dynamics brings a new consciousness of multiple perspectives.
Subject & Object, States & Stages are wonderful ways of looking life in different perspectives.
Finding release by engagement, finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion.
Let’s plug into our highest Selves and become the radiant manifestation of Spirit that is our destiny.
Thank you Brian & vishen, for a touch of Ken Wilber’s classic thoughts to our souls.
Stages and States — this is really powerful for me and by far one of the biggest insights from the entire PN challenge. I’ve attended so many seminars and read pretty much all the main personal development books and I am a master at creating and changing states in myself and others. The problem is, it never sticks. I NEED to learn how to transform my states into stages so am making the commitment to continue resarching this particular aspect of my journey. I would welcome any of your thoughts, insights and strategies in this area.
So I guess I did learn a lot after all!!
Have a terrific Thursday folks!
Indeed Jayne…Gay Hendricks’ “Zones” was the first concept that came to my mind as I read that. All it takes is an adjustment of the thermostat and the states can become stages, or “zones”. After that it becomes almost autonomic. I’ll love when I no longer have to think about my upper limits. Like you, I have come from many seminars and experiential weekends yet had not put those highs into cruise control. The transformation has to come from within, not from intervals of growth spurts. It’s a matter of keeping that thermostat, the gateway between levels, cranked open so your positive acts are no longer acts, but a matter of disposition.
Hi Mark, Jayne — Ditto…I posted above in reply to AMPowers that I think I need to take the concept of subject-object and throw it on my addiction to states. There are times when I feel I have a grasp of a stage, but, alas it must have been a state
Thanks Mark — you are so right. I’ve been focusing a lot on my inner thermostat but hadn’t related it to the states and stages so thank you for the insight!
Just a quick note to thank each and every one of you who replied to my post yesterday. The PN Challenge has left me feeling ‘naked and exposed’ but in a good way (I hope!) This is an incredible experience and it’s made all the more richer because of the huge amount of wisdom, connection and fun that this community has created over the last 29 days. Thank you — you’re all great minds to me!
I enjoyed the above comments. I found this PN to really reasonate with me, more than the last note. Ken appears to use the interconnectedness of all things, including our pasts and other cultures. Joseph Campbell did this as well, with Archetypal principles embedded in our collective subconscious, including our intergration of cultures. In the last PN, willpower was a key factor, instead of the subconscious. Willpower generally does not work (anyone try to diet?). The subconscious needs to be addressed in the mind body in order to make lasting growth, structures, and move on to the next stage and maintain it.
The spiral dynamics hit home with me, being a environmentalist and vegan, and having grown to accept captialism and work with it. Some environmentalist believe that this is a cop-out, but this note helped clarify this stance. I would like to learn more about Ken Wilber’s philosophy.
Day 28 Ken Wilber18 February 2010
You had me at “Integral Age”. From that point on I am saying, WOW!, someone who speaks my language. I know I’m not 100% stupid or 100% smart, but I haven’t yet read Wilber and hope to very soon. His engagement with our Universe, which I’d like to call the Omniverse, is entirely in line with my school of thought buoyed by years of study in many schools of thought. For decades now I have been insistent upon the imminent convergence of our religions and sciences, and I am pleased to note that Wilber’s philosophy fits smack dab in the middle of them all. There will come a time when we all see that nothing’s all right or all wrong. It just is. Another holon (the wall) we see before us…and behind us. All around us.
very true!
The larger question is, now, what kind of practicality do we derive from this information? My primary conclusion ties in with what we have seen advocated in many of the Pnotes so far…the sense of “we are not alone.” We have a basic need to interact and empathize with others in order to perpetuate our own sense of flow in a world that includes us all. We must develop close and lasting relationships with others who can serve as well as gain from this symbiosis. A community of one-selved organisms. I see a tiered, yet inclusive, look at personal progress as we can utilize what we are in order to become a larger “us” not restricted by mundane ego, but by plugging the ego into something bigger. We are capable of attaining our Higher Self and seeing our greater purpose as manifested by a drive to immerse, and not exclude by faux transcendence.
WOW! WOW! WOW!
I’ve listened to the note twice already and I am still taking it all in. What a way to stretch my current mindset!
Can’t comment fully yet but had to say something about the Holons idea. I’m taking a food therapy class and my instructor went into the whole holons concept and I admit it was hard to take in. After 5 months of class and really seeing things from this holon perspective I can finally see how in essence everything is one and comes from the same source. I really liked having this idea in today’s PN as it helps me understand better and relate to this mind blowing holon view!
Happy Thursday peeps! More later!
My AHA moment was…
“Evolution goes beyond what went before, but because it must embrace what went before, then its very nature is to transcend and include and thus it has an inherent directionality, a secret impulse, toward increasing depth, increasing intrinsic value, increasing consciousness. In order for evolution to move at all, it must move in those directions—there’s no place else for it to go!”
There is no right or wrong and no one view is the better than the other. All views need to be taken into consideration because they all have something great that comes out of them. Although, some people get stuck on their perspective and get forceful with it because everyone is just trying to justify their way of thinking.
We need to get passed this, I have been starting to look at things for a 3rd perspective (although hard sometimes!!!),when you do this you can’t really fight for your “view”. When we take a step back and really look at everything and all the possibilities, things start to seem clearer, and it seems that all of humanity wouldn’t fight anymore. There would be no point, because we would be able to only seek the positives out of all points of view and know that we are not much different than the person next to us, but we are very much alike.
If everyone could see it this way and if everyone was empathic, I really do believe we could go 1000+ years without war and we wouldn’t be so divided like we once thought before.
Einstein’s “optical delusion” strikes at the core of the ego. It’s not a disparaging strike…it’s more of a realistic assessment of our corporeal selves as we “exist” in this world. I know mine has gone through numerous states, and hope that these states become traits, allowing me to focus ahead instead of deliberating every thought that spews from my mind. That would better facilitate a permanent migration into the Zone of Genius as I mosey though this myriad of manifestations experienced through subliminal transcendence. I certainly am not wealthy enough to sit and ponder it. I had one thought (well, one that I wrote down) about the acorn-to-oak allegory: the acorn can become not only an oak tree; it can decompose into its elemental parts as well. Thus it changes its subjective perspective by opting for another objective: nutrients for other acorns (and many more organisms).
This note was so full of great thinking that I went to kenwilber.com (intense website!) and found this quote that stated exactly what I’ve been experiencing in my life and what I see in my children and this group:
“Contained within the human heart is an inextinguishable drive to make greater sense of our world while also cultivating the freedom, passion and capacities to transform it. This is why many of us are drawn to lead integral lives. And I’m sure you have noticed that while living integrally starts as something you know, it proceeds to something you do, and ends as something you embody. It is embodiment, this final step, that we all seek – the “on-board capacities” to grow anywhere we want to; to live completely, deeply in touch with our unique gifts and vision. Not merely as something we know, but also as something we are.”
I intend for this to be not only a state in my life, but a definite stage I can look back to and say the transformations that took place in my life began here. I hope my children can do the same.
Great quote. Thanks for sharing.
When President Obama was candidate Obama, his vision of what was possible sounded very close to Ken Wilbur’s notion about integral philosophy. But looking back at how the legislators (on both sides of the political aisle) have placed road-blocks in front that integral vision, makes me think that they’re all acting from that “red” zone of “my agenda first,” and “my way or the highway.” Maybe I’m just being naive, hoping that politicians would ever transcend their politics, but if enough activists have enough soap boxes, with enough passion…well, perhaps we WILL see a change in America.
I’m thankful Ken Wilbur is on the scene, representing a voice of reason. And once again, thank you, Brian, for synthesizing the sometimes complex and challenging ideas of Mr. Wilbur into an actionable six pages of advice for holding one’s life in a bigger context.
I heard that, too…seems like most politicians are in the first tier, not always red, but first tier for sure. Yes, this would be a better place if we could all evolve to second tier, right?
Okay, y’all know what floats my boat by now. I could go on all day about the importance (of being earnest) of integral thinking, set afire by a mere needle poke of Ken Wilber. I see the importance, nay, the ultimate significance, of incorporating his Omniversal view of us as we really are into a non-limited existence. Should we seek to transcend above the rabble, when it is from the rabble we rise? A few years ago, when I stood in the Coliseum in Rome and marveled at its agelessness, I thought, wow, a farm boy from PA who only read about and dreamed of being here. Latin and mythology were my Muses of that day. What came to the forefront of my mind thereafter was something my grandfather used to tell me, “Don’t forget who you are and where you came from.” I could never let go of this as I aspire toward my Higher Self.
Good morning fellow PN adventurers! From my take on Ken Wilber and experience with his teachings, here are some key points I hallucinated from Brian’s excellent summary:
Life is holographic; its elements are interrelated — physically, logically, experientially, etc.
Like Google Maps, our internal maps of our holographic existence can have different “views” (levels of magnification/frames). We can get into turmoil when we get overly attached to a view and/or believe that it’s the only valid view representing the totally of goodness, possibility, and existence.
One way to remedy this attachment is to deliberately shift our perspective — like changing from Google Map’s “Street View” to the “Satellite View” — in order to get a bigger more inclusive and “integral” map. Meditation is another way to develop the mind/body to grok this non-dual reality.
Change happens in states and stages. We can experience a state for a period of time, but it is transient unless we develop the requisite structures (practices/habits/perspectives) to sustain it. Once that state becomes the “norm,” we have evolved to a new stage in our development/understanding.
Today’s big aha is beginning to sound like a mantra
, it seems that what I’m seeking is to stabilize that mercurial (for me) state of oneness. Though it’s only been literally 3 days, I’m already starting to feel that the silent sitting meditation is helping me. Because of the PN Challenge, I can now see that experience of “oneness” as the mountain peak that I’m traveling toward and that these adventures I’m having, practices I’m developing, and fun learning I’m engaged in makes for a rich and exciting journey.
EXPERIMENT
Yesterday’s Brian Tracy experiment was really telling for me. I discovered that I was accomplishing lots, but I had not been taking consistent daily action on one of my most important goals for 2010 (I thought I had been). What a freeing discovery. Now I can do something different today!!
I also had a cool experience yesterday when I did my meditation before being interviewed by one of my favorite podcast hosts. I felt much clearer and focused than I would have otherwise. Incidentally, that interview materialized after I shared my appreciation for this person and the excellence of his work. Dang, this challenge is fun!
Have yet complete my meditating before creating my daily schedule. Will do that after I take a morning walk with a great friend! I’m going to be sure to include some next actions on my important goal today.
Best to you all today! ~ Tom
Love the Google Maps analogy. Great stuff Tom.
I found tremendous states of Oneness via the Oneness Experiment recently. It has lots of pracitces to help you create it as a stage too. http://www.onenessexperiment.com if interested.
Thanks, AF! I didn’t know about the Oneness Experiment. Maybe “The Proof” and its 40-day program for embodying oneness would be a good next step. It’s bookmarked! Thank you! ~ Tom
Wait a minute…are you doing the Oneness Experiment and the PNotes challenge? I thought I was trying to do a lot at one time. Looks good…like Tom, I bookmarked it for after this challenge.
Yes. Oneness has ended — it was 40 days and didn’t take weekends off.
So many days the quotes and meditations from The Proof aligned with the PN of the day. It was wicked pissa!
Great…my calendar looks like this : PN Day 29, WFFTS Day 34, SPPP Day 3. This is how I started my 2010, and it has been, how do you say, a “wicked pissa”?! I look forward to checking out the Oneness Experiment further…thanks again for sharing!
me too! that gave me a chuckle… so nicely put and with a kick of laughter!
Great post Tom! If you saw my yesterday’s post, it is an example of my not taking consistent daily action that I experienced a fall back from my goal. Best to you!
Rolana
Wow.…wow and double wow!!
I am on a short break so I’ll have to come back later but I’ve processed this much so far…
“Yes, my spiritual practice is my top priority AND I manifest my spiritual practice in creative service that makes me extraordinarily wealthy.”
Isn’t this what we’ve been leading up to these past few weeks and what I’ve been struggling with myself for years. I never realized that you CAN and SHOUld be spiritual and wealthy. You don’t need to focus on one OR the other, they are both necesseties and both tools for personal growth. ABSOLUTELY Love it! One of our notes pointed that out before. I always felt that if I really wanted wealth and put that ehead of other desires I was being selfish.…now I am definitely aiming for increased wealth! Bring it on!
uh huh! not so easy to do but uh huh…
He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.”
I love this quopte from Einstien. I actually re-read this yesterday as the opening quote from Lynne McTaggart’s “The Intention Experiment”. I love the idea that science and spirituality are starting to work together. in accordance with Wilber, they do not have to be opposing forces. Rather they can and should be integrated in order to acvhieve optimal and effecient evolution of our
K…gotta go.…but I’ll be back
species.
wow this was intense.. cant stay now but ill be back …sooo much to absorb…yummy!
I’ve heard Ken Wilber’s name for a few years from Bill Harris and Genpo Roshi. They talked so highly of him, I was intimidated by him. After being lost so many times reading Bill Harris’ blog I was sure Wilber was far beyond me. Glad to see that isn’t the case – at least based on Brian’s note. I now see how so much of Bill Harris’ teachings were inspired by Wilber – States and Stages and Witnessing are all over the Centerpointe materials.
By the way, I just learned that Bill and Genpo will be speaking at Smith College in Northampton Ma in April incase that is a short drive for anyone. I’ve already got my ticket.
I find that Holosync (much like Brian says in the video) has me changing stages. At first I loved the states it put me in, over time I realized I was content, peaceful, even happy much more often than before. New stages for me. It has also helped put me into much more of a Yes, And place in daily life.
Unfortunately, you can see so much of the first tier of Spiral Dynamics in politics. Would be great to see the Integral Party or the “Yes, And” Platform. Great note. Gives me more books for the reading list.
With Ken Wilbur, I have the sense of that an entire worlds wait to be discovered. But for now, the spacious practice of yes, and… Yes, and … is a key that unlocks closed rooms inside of me. Yes, and… helps me gracefully hold polarities and seemingly opposite truths. When I am feeling sad or angry or anxious, yes, and… helps me to acknowledge what else is present. It calls me to feel beyond the obvious, to sense into the softer places inside of me and name what longs to be felt. Yes, and… creates space where once there was none. It allows for you and me to share that space, for you to be seen and heard and me to be seen and heard. Yes, and… holds that there is room for us all. It is about a big vision, inclusion and compassion. Yes, and … is a key and what it unlocks for me is countless rooms that once were off limits or ignored or missed. Yes, and invites me into the whole experience of myself, of you and of this world.
States and Stages to me speaks of integration, of enjoying and savoring the peak moments of my life while simultaneously taking a stand to infuse them into my day to day existence. States are not some mind blowing summer blockbuster movie that I experience only to forget in the weeks that follow, they are intended to be windows into what is possible for me; a cold splash of water in the face intended to wake me up to the glorious potential of THIS life. I believe that peak moments are a hint at what life can be like (“Are you willing to be happy all the time?”), so even as I practice a non-clinging approach to the experiences of living both peak and valley, I keep an eye on my destination, implementing positive practices and habits that cultivate, expand and deepen these amazing states.
“Transcend ego but include it.” End the battle within, I say. Love all that is present. Love it and love it and love it. No matter how challenging or crazy making it might feel. This is my 100%, put the blinders on, without fail, no excuses, all the time practice. If it’s there, I love it. I make friends with it. I take time to understand it, integrate it, make friends with it, dance with it, laugh with it, appreciate it and value it. And that includes you my little schmoopy ego. Yes, even you with your off putting shenanigans and tendencies towards fear and gloom and doom. We’ve done some amazing work together over the last years. I sense that you are beginning to get a sense of what is possible for you and for us. You are beginning to understand how to support rather than hinder, lift rather than stifle, open rather than shut down. I am grateful for your willingness to learn and grow and evolve. I know we have a ways to go but we’ve come so far already and we have happiness to show for it.
Nice post John! When can we expect the “book” to be released?? Have a great day!
Thanks, pal! Funny you should say that …stay tuned one is in the works.
I was thinking the same as Peter when I read your post! Great!
John, you put words to the feelings I didn’t have words for. If I had more time I could write a chapter on what that means to me. Thank you!
John,
You elaborated beautifully on exactly what I was feeling,too…thanks for your insightful comments!
I am new to Ken Wilber’s work so thanks for introducing his materials. I admire his efforts to synthesize and integrate information and insights from many disciplines to support the evolution of the Integral era. My favorite take away from this PN is ‘YES and.’ I have used a similar expression over the years — “it is both Yin AND Yang.” Duality (OR) thinking can be so limiting. It has been a true delight to teach my husband and others the virtues of seeing both the Yin AND Yang of concepts and situations. May we all expand our views and vision to appreciate both sides of the coin and move aways from black and white thinking. Namaste all
Subject and Object
IN this way I have learned to step outside myself, so to speak and view my own world as an occasional observer. I do find these opportunities seem to present themselves at times of conflict but always leave me with a little more insight in who I am in relation to the whole.
Wilber’s idea of subject and object and exactly how we identify ourselves, which in turn dominates our perspective of reality, is not a necessarily new concept for me. After reading Eckheart Tolle’s “A New Earth” and discovering, for the first time, the idea of “pain bodies’ I started taking a serious look at who I identify myself with. To some extent there are increasingly deeper levels of this identification revealing itself to me every day. As I continue searching and opening up to my own potential I find many previous barriers dissolving at the same time a wider and more
integrated” individual is appearing to me
States and Stages
I totally dig Wilbers concept of states and stages. Having gone through an almost “euphoric” initial period of awakening, I was left with a serious attachment to and obsession with psychic phenomenon. After a traumatic childhood and disheartening twenties, I was dissallusioned and completely faithless. In 2007 events happened that completely changes my whole prespective about spirit and life in general. I realized there was something else that was invisible, but was still unsure what IT was. It tooks years of processing and assimilating what i have experinced to take me to where I on am on my path. I can see where some people can get “stuck” within a state. I think the key to trancscendance is to process the “states” and integrate them wholy in our development. In order to successfully do this we have to “Honor the state experiences we’re blessed to have but see them for what they are: a TASTE of what’s possible.” We are worthy of so much more than the ecstacy of any given moment.…and that took me a long time to learn.
Ahhh…so true…interesting, when I was reading about the subject-object idea, it made me think of how, using that process is how I have dealt with addictions…of all sorts…TV, coffee, and other addictions. Now, it’s possible to say that I am addicted to states. I know that I need to do the work to get to the higher level of stages, but until I am there on a more regular basis, I want the states. So, maybe I need to do some subject-object work on the states.
The Integral Sage__I think we’re all one PN closer to becoming a whole group of them!__I mentioned the ego yesterday in one of my own posts and this totally is in sync with what I said. “There is certainly a type of truth to the notion of transcending ego: it doesn’t mean destroy the ego, it means plug it into something bigger.” I wrote yesterday that we cannot rid ourselves of ego rather ego does serve a purpose. I’d rather have ego serve me than the other way around (and a stage where I spent most of my early adult life). So for me “egoless” means less control and dominance of our ego not an individual completely void of ego all together. This is a new way for me to see our history’s great sages, as individuals with strong and powerful egos. I think I am going to have to google this Mr Wilber and see what else he has to teach me
Hi! .…… Awesome Note! My “take away” from the “Ken Wilber” PhilosophersNote came from the part about “Subject and Object” I found it to be a very interesting way of looking at things .…. Perspective! Cool!
The Big Idea: Subject-Object orientations. Try this one on: How you see the world is your subjective perspective. What you look at through that subjective perspective is the object of that subjective perspective. So far so good? Now, here’s the trick: Can you make your current subjective perspective the OBJECT of a NEW perspective?
In other words, can you step back and “look at” the current way you see the world? Sounds simple/easy but that’s a really powerful thing to be able to do. When we’re not locked into one perspective on the world, we have the flexibility to shift into a healthier way to see things. Most of us tend to get locked into our perspective and think it’s the absolute truth. Not so effective.
Thanks for an awesome PhilosophersNote Brian! Have a great day Everyone!
Hello,
Has anyone heard from Chris2110? I miss reading his comments! If your out there Chris, please start posting again. You are missed.
Me too!
I’m a bit later than normal today, due to a busy day with activities with my three children.
Today, I got my journal all ready, to write loads before posting my comments. Unfortunately, I just didn’t get this note. I read the words, listened to the mp3, but it was just way over my head.
So now, I think I’ll spend a bit longer reading everyone elses comments, and see if that helps me understand what on earth this was all about.
Being totally honest (again!) I found this book a struggle to get my head around it — perhaps because it’s a different style and much more ‘spiritual’ than the other notes! However, I dug deep and found a couple of golden nuggets:
“Yes and.…” — this is everyday language for me but from a creativity perspective. I use it to encourage my clients to think about alternative ideas. I need to use this more to help me personally to see the ‘other perspective’. In the ‘heat of the moment’ I don’t always do this so will make a conscious effort to embed this positive habit into my psyche.
Subject and Object — Brian’s story about his own business really resonanted with me because it’s exactly how I felt for many years of running my own business. I always used to see my company as my ‘3rd’ child (I’ve got 2 human ones!) but once I disassociated myself from the brand, it has been easier for me to consider selling the company and I’m working on an exit strategy. The challenge I’ve got is that everybody else (clients and family) think The Thinking Business is me so I’ve got some work to do in that area!
G’mornin’, Jayne. I am a real abstract thinker and could’ve gotten lost for a week or more in Wilber as presented, briefly, by Brian. I rarely run into people who can wrap around this train of thought. I also see the imminent futility of getting so engrossed in it that reality begins to fade away, and that is the reason I immediately wrote “practicality?” in the margin of my journal. I wanted to derive practical applications from Ken’s exhortations. I did, and I can tie it in with others we have already discussed. I immediately went to Hendricks, Chopra, Covey, Hicks (naturally) and Coehlo. They’re all highly successful, so I thought, “Why not?”
Practicality is what it’s all about at the end of the day! It was the first book I’d struggled with but it was a good experience because it made me think at a very deep level about what it was about! The PN comments also helped to explain some of the areas in more detail so thanks to everyone!
Hi Jayne–
I noticed a pattern in your posts that may provide a clue to what your next steps might be. “I NEED to…”, “will make a conscious effort to…”, “I’ve got some work to do…” “continue researching…” do you see any pattern here or is it just me? I think it may be time for you to stop trying so hard to achieve a result and trust in all the work you’ve done thus far, which I can see, is considerable. I remember reading something famed baseball player, Yogi Berra once said: “I can’t think and hit at the same time.” So my sense is you’ve got much less “work to do” than you realize.
Thanks Misterzee — you’re spot on with your observation. Love the Yogi Berra quote!
The difference in between extrovert sensate and introvert intuitive. Just a matter of function and perception.
To me Ken Wilber is pure magic pure intrinsic interaction of total reality, if this seems like gibberish to you, that is because we’re at both end of the spectrum when it comes to capture the essence of what is reality for ME.
I Love this kind of elevation into a different sphere of learning and integration, that is where I evolve and operate at my best. And for the purpose of passing on the knowledge acquired I need to integrate at the majority’s level of perception and I use to find that very difficult and could not understand how come people around me could not understand. So I had to translate to be able to pass it on. One time I told someone that “the rule of the game was not harder than the game itself” You should have seen the look on their face. Priceless. Made total sense to me.
I have learned to be able to operate, most of the time, at both extreme and it is very rewarding. Operating in a total allegorical sphere of motion is just as important and I might say, is equal in value, to the more simplistic idea of pre-conception/conception, based on reality as we see it. Everything is born from a though, everything is first and foremost created from an image born from within. Directly created from energy, understanding the process actualize transformation in a pure state of divine possibilities.
Thinking that we have all the truth hold in one position versus accepting the possibility that another or more truth or part thereof can exist, is arrogance at its best, and the cause of so many conflicts deriving from stubbornness of principles. The truth is the truth is the truth, now we can say that in 100’s of different languages and every time we translate it back the meaning of it has changed, thus creating an new idea, a new perception, rejecting it doesn’t make it wrong it actualize it into a new form or intention, creating a new debate of possibilities.
This is what love and hate is made o, and at that point we choose to accept or reject, and our personal choice makes all the difference in what our personal life is and determine what our personal future is going to be. As for me I decide that we are all right listening to our own personal voice, and it is OK to be heard but not really to shout to be heard. Conflicts are fought on the basis of forcing, shouting, a voice of believe into another voice of a different approach. And that the things that wars are made off, and any other dysfunctional process and situation. One action for one result with 100’s of different way to make it happen and everyone acceptable ones at that, if willing to accept.
I never heard or read Ken Wilber, it’s time to get to it. One more things , can the ocean be enjoyable and dangerous at the same time? Imagination prevail….
Today’s Note; an introduction to Ken Wilber’s Integral Era Philosophy has left me with much to learn and think about. Here’s my comment on my understanding of Spiral Dynamics.
No one is evil in their own mind. No matter what grievous result comes from their actions or decisions, it is always because of a goal in their mind which justifys the action in spite of the horror involved. Hitler thought the world would be better without Jews. Jews didn’t think so.
Food aid delivered to devastated areas threatens some of the people in power who then divert the aid efforts. Who is right?
We all have our own bias. Shading them in pretty colors does not change them for good or evil. The biases are intact.
ahh its late but alas i am here to lay my comments…
reading so many of your comments i smile… we are all expanding… all at different stages.…. but all the same expanding…mmmmmm
that leads me to todays notes..
not being locked into 1 perspective…
but the best and there are so feekin many great ideas here…
BUILD THE FLOORS UNTIL YOU ARE IN THE PENTHOUSE APARTMENT WITH ALL THE VIEWS!
AND
EGO’S ARE SOOO NEEDED TO ACCOMPLISH GOALS.… OF COURSE SPIRITUALLY BACKED THAT IS!
enjoy the nite my friends…
No one is smart enough to be 100% wrong…great reminder / phrasing on how to acknowledge that other people are living their own truths
State vs. stage is powerful. I have the bad habit of jumping in with both feet to a new practice, getting all excited about the possibilities, and then discovering that the level of energy can’t be maintained. I like the idea of building structures — ties in to Tony Robins “rituals” and Marci Shimoff’s take baby steps / employ kaizen approach.
I have been reading Wiber’s books for years and I often have trouble understanding just what he is saying. I had occasion to give a sermon at our Unitarian Universalist church about the difference between the soul and spirit and I heavily quoted him. In that case I felt he guided me quite well. But sometimes when he is organizing everything he loses me. I personally can’t track more than a few things at a time. I think his philosophy of Integral Life Practice makes sense and I am embracing it as a modern evolution of consciousness. In that area though, I’ve been consulting Steve McIntosh’s book Integral Consciousness and the Future of Evolution as well as the Integral Life Practice by some of Wilber’s followers. I like Wilber best when he is speaking about spirituality but not so much when he talks about everything and what quadrant I need to live in.
post 1 of 2
Hi everyone! Finally ready to post more on Ken Wilber.
This note literally shook me to me core! I was reviewing my notes at work and I almost started to cry. But then afterwards I got this amazing feeling that I already have what I want. I always have a hard time explaining these moments but they just seem right.
I love the integral philosophy idea and is something that I have been practicing for many years. This is one of the main reasons why I love to travel so much. I love immersing myself in other cultures and interacing with people from all over the world. I’m just fascinated with how different yet similar we all are. I guess that’s the holon perspective
Love Love Love the “Yes and…” perspective. For a very long time I was stuck in the either/or view (and honestly still am in certain areas of my life) but with help my amazing mentors (like PN!) I am letting go, opening up, going with the flow and really listeing and embracing the world around me. It’s amazing how such a small shift in thinking can make one’s view so much wider and brighter.
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This Yes and… is def something to use as I witness my own current views and look for a new perspective on things. The possibilites are endless!
And the states & stages idea is so key to transforming our lives!! I first came aware of this in the an earlier PN (I believe it was the Big Leap). I would criticize myself for not advancing and making the same mistakes over and over. Well it was precisely b/c I wasn’t nourishing the foundation of what I have learned and putting my foundation into practice! I needed to be reminded of this as I just came back from an incredible retreat in Sedona where parts of me that had been hidden were exposed and I need to make sure they stay exposed!
These notes are incredible in each of their own way. I feel so amazing
Ken Wilber
This note cracked me up from the start because I too avoided the book and know the stare. Ready to jump in. AQAL aside.
We are in the integral age — integrate as many truths as much as possible. Traditions cultures disciplines over time.
HOLON — Everything is a whole thing and yet part of a whole.
Life is not either or. Spiral dynamics defines different stages of development. Lets have healthful parts of each to transcend to the second tier without excluding.
TRANSCEND AND INCLUDE.
Learn to say YES — AND.
No one is smart enough to be 100% wrong. I LOVE THIS. See the partial truth in all.
Witness our perspectives.
Subject object orientation.
The Big Idea: Subject-Object orientations. How you see the world is your
subjective perspective. What you look at through that subjective perspective is the object of
that subjective perspective. So far so good? Now, here’s the trick: Can you make your current
subjective perspective the OBJECT of a NEW perspective?
Don’t become your position. Recognize the truth in another’s perspective.
States and Stages
Honor the states but build the structure for the next stage. You must do the work — dig a deep foundation — do the shadow work and the rest erecting each stage.
Egoless does not mean minus personal it means personal plus! Plug the ego into something bigger.
The integral sage, the nondual sage, is here to show us otherwise. Known generally as ‘Tantric,’
these sages insist on transcending life by living it. They insist on finding release by engagement,
finding nirvana in the midst of samsara, finding total liberation by complete immersion.”
Spirit is both the highest level of holarchy but also the paper in which the entire holarchy is written.
Great Note– Thank you for the gateway note to Ken Wilber.
Christina